2024’s biggest crypto moments and 2025 predictions: A Cointelegraph editorial roundtable

[00:00:07] Savannah Fortis: Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Decentralize with Cointelegraph. I’m your host, Savannah Fortis, and today, we are bringing you a very special episode of Decentralize: Cointelegraph’s first-ever editorial roundtable chat. In this episode, I’ll be joined by members of Cointelegraph’s editorial team to break down the previous year and look forward to what’s next. So, make sure you stay tuned to the very end of the episode to hear predictions straight from the inside of our newsroom. I’m your host, Savannah Fortis, EU reporter and head of podcasts at Cointelegraph. Today, I have an all-star team joining me, with Gareth Jenkinson, managing editor and head of multimedia at Cointelegraph; Zoltan Vardai, breaking news reporter on our EU team; and Turner Wright, senior policy reporter on our US team.

2024 was a huge year in the crypto and decentralized space, with everything from ETFs to the US election to Bitcoin surpassing $100K. There’s a lot to break down, and no one is better for the job than those who are on the front lines covering the news day in and day out. So, thank you so much for joining me, you guys.

[00:01:28] Gareth Jenkinson: It’s good to be here. Awesome.

[00:01:29] Savannah Fortis: Like I said, we are going to split this episode into two sections. The first half of the episode, I want to hear everything that you guys got. I want to hear biggest surprises, most important moments, personal reflections. All of you have been on the ground at events this year. You guys have done some interviews with some of the foremost names in the space. Big projects. You guys have all the details, so I want to hear reflections from those moments. And then second half of the episode, make sure you stay tuned, because we’ll give some predictions and any emerging trends. So, if anyone wants to take the floor.

[00:02:08] Zoltan Vardai: I feel like we can’t really start off with any key moments in 2024 without talking about the Bitcoin ETF approval and how I really feel like that acted as this major kind of like regulatory approval towards Bitcoin. And it really made it so much easier for large institutional investors to start allocating BTC.

[00:02:36] Gareth Jenkinson: Yeah. It’s crazy. If you think back, it’s almost been a year close to the day since that happened. As we’re recording this, it’s the 2nd of January, and that happened, I think, I stand to be corrected, on the 5th of January last year.

[00:02:49] Turner Wright: January 10^th, actually.

[00:02:51] Gareth Jenkinson: Okay. January 10th. So, we’re just about a week out. And Zoltan’s 100% correct. I remember when we finally got the news out how big it was across the markets, and so many other things have happened this year. But when Savannah put the prep sheet for this together, I think that’s the first thing that any of us were thinking of. In fact, I put some notes down this evening before we jumped on the call, and I actually forgot about Bitcoin $100K. But Bitcoin ETF approval was the first thing I put down. And Turner, I’m curious to hear what your thoughts were in general about it. Because, you know, you’re a big policy person, and you’ve kind of been watching this space for a long time. And to see regulatory approval of that nature and the financial impact that it’s had over the whole year has been massive. And for someone who’s in the US and knows better than most, I mean, it must have been pretty amazing after all these years covering the industry.

[00:03:45] Turner Wright: And maybe it was just because I didn’t take any time off last New Year’s and Christmas, but it’s but it seems like the lead-up around the ETF was a lot more significant than $100K, that $100K was almost inevitable at that point after the ETF. I mean, some people said so, but no one knew for sure. But it’s just, anyone who was just on social media or just monitoring the news at that time just remembers just how much we were all glued to just like every little update concerning approval. Like, is it going to be today? Is it going to be today? Is it like January 9th, January 8th, January 10th. And then when that fake tweet came out from Gensler, which resulted in the charges, is like everyone just believed it almost. It did come from his account, to be fair, but everyone just believed it immediately. So, that guy allegedly knew exactly what he was doing, just in terms of timing and whatnot. And then we followed up with the spot Ether ETFs like a few months later in May. And it’s only recently, like in the last two months or so, that we’ve been looking into others like Solana and XRP.

[00:04:54] Gareth Jenkinson: Yeah, I think it’s also worth just like highlighting, in the year, the ETFs acquired over $115 billion in Bitcoin. And I mean, you know, there were so many big-name journalists that highlighted, you know, the sheer volume of Bitcoin that these ETFs have been buying. And, you know, the last time something this big happened was when VanEck launched gold ETFs, you know, in, I think it was the 1960s. And I got to speak to Jan van Eck. And he told me about how his dad pioneered that. And all these years later, to hear someone like him following in his father’s footsteps and doing it with like digital gold I think was a really cool story to hear as well this this past year. And I think it really does kind of lead to the Bitcoin $100K. I mean, it probably wouldn’t have been possible if it wasn’t for the Bitcoin ETFs last year.

And I think for me, just reflecting on 2024, in general, people were talking about memecoins, X, Y, Z. For me, 2024 was like, you know, Bitcoin Summer, like DeFi Summer many, many years ago already. It was Bitcoin summer, you know. Finally, everyone was talking about Bitcoin again. We got $100K. The amount of people that are investing in it, the moves that Michael Saylor has made. Yeah. I’m a bit of a closet Bitcoin maximalist, if I’m honest. So, you know, it’s nice to see that come to fruition after all these years. And a lot of people’s conviction about Bitcoin be paid off in such a way. It’s really cool.

[00:06:32] Zoltan Vardai: I feel like, as someone who’s been into Bitcoin since 2017, it’s crazy that today we’re having news about whales buying hundreds of millions or 50 million. We’ve gone to the point where it doesn’t even really move the market. It’s just gotten to be day-to-day business.

[00:06:49] Savannah Fortis: Yeah. And it’s really interesting that, you know, that was at the beginning of 2024. Because if you kind of zoom out and take a macro perspective, that year was also a really big year for kind of, you know, traditional finance like really accepting the space in a way and just a very strong bridge between our space and, you know, more traditional financial spaces. Our space being closer and closer to being like validified by people who previously had no association with it or previously thought that, you know, everything was a hoax. Everything was a scam. That was the start of that this year.

And then as you look at the year and how it played out, you know, it just got more and more legit being a major factor of, you know, a major factor of platforms for US presidential candidates, for example. Like crypto was. Crypto regulations. That’s something people wanted. And so it was just interesting to see that, you know, almost like an omen that we didn’t even realize at the time. But as we look back, like, boom, that’s how the year started. And that was a really big theme for 2024, in general, for the space. Not just for Bitcoin, but just for the decentralized space as a whole. So, it’s kind of fun to see that as like one of the intro things for last year. And I’m curious if there will be something equally foretelling for this year.

[00:08:23] Gareth Jenkinson: Well, there is at least something super exciting coming up this January, you know, very divisive, obviously, Trump winning the US elections. But if I think back to 3 or 4 months ago and our team that was on the ground for Bitcoin 2024 in Nashville, to see a Bitcoin event be overtaken... And, you know, I, at the time, thought that it was slightly captured that all these politicians were there to pander to a big Bitcoin audience. I hate to say crypto because, you know, Bitcoin event is really a Bitcoin event. But all these politicians, they’re pandering to a Bitcoin audience felt a little bit disingenuous to me. But I look back on it now, and it was another watershed moment for Bitcoin, in particular, with all these big-name politicians getting on stage and really speaking to Bitcoiners, and some of them doing better than others.

I thought RFK Jr was really sincere with his take on Bitcoin. I think he really understands what Bitcoin is and how it works and the value proposition. And I think Trump really, maybe the team around him, has a lot better understanding of it. But he definitely pandered to the audience a little bit more. And he wasn’t as convicted as someone like RFK was. But he said all the right things. And the people that are around him now that are working to put through a Bitcoin bill in the US is probably one of the most exciting things. And that’s kind of why, from all the conversations that I’ve had, and Turner and Zoltan can weigh in on this as well. But I think that’s why we got to $100K is there’s a lot of positive sentiment around the potential of a Bitcoin bill being passed, and that leading to the US adopting a sort of strategic reserve for Bitcoin. And if you know, the biggest nation in the world goes and starts buying Bitcoin and holding it on their balance sheet alongside their oil reserves and gold reserves, everyone else is going to have to follow suit. And then you get the $250K or $1 million per Bitcoin sort of rhetoric in play.

But I mean to see Bitcoin 2024 in Nashville. The amount of people that were there. Donald Trump on stage talking about Bitcoin. You know, if you asked people back in 2015 if something like that would ever happen, no. And I mean, it kind of feels like we’re not really living in reality, but we are. We’re here, and it happened. And yeah, I mean, maybe the other two, you guys can weigh in on this. But this for me was... Like that event and all these politicians jumping on the bandwagon and Trump making all these promises to Bitcoiners was another big standout for me in 2024.

[00:11:06] Turner Wright: Well, it’s not just the presidency. In fact, you could say that like that’s minor compared to everything else that’s going on. We personally didn’t get this take from Ripple CEO Brad Garlinghouse, but I’m sure a lot of our listeners watched his 60 Minutes interview. And we did speak to him, just not on this particular subject, that he was personally influenced by the Securities and Exchange Commission like going after, filing a lawsuit against Ripple. And that’s what caused him to join with other companies to form a political action committee to fund these candidates that they thought were in favor of pro-crypto policies, which you can argue just how much influence they had just with all the media buys. But at least in terms of what Garlinghouse is saying and his chief legal officer and a bunch of other people, it’s fair to say that crypto money at least played a role in electing candidates from the lowest levels.

The House of Representatives, according to Stand With Crypto, has like 247 members out of 435 that are considered pro-crypto. So, that’s a majority right there. That’s not split along party lines at all. That’s just what they consider to be pro-crypto. And in that respect, a lot of crypto money didn’t go direct to contributions. I should say, didn’t go directly to Trump’s campaign or Harris’, for that matter. Some did. Like I think it was the Ripple executive chair, like he donated directly to Harris’ campaign. But yeah, that was fairly insignificant compared to all the money at the lower levels.

[00:12:41] Gareth Jenkinson: Yeah. It was. And it’s funny that you say that as well, Turner, because all that money went into sort of, you know, backing, you know, politicians or their campaigns. And a few years ago, Sam Bankman-Fried was doing the same things. And, you know, now he’s in jail. So, the right people doing the right things.

I don’t know if Zoltan wanted to jump in there, but you mentioned Ripple and XRP. That’s another big story that was a standout to me, was sort of getting closer to the winding down of the lawsuit between the SEC and Ripple, and then finally handing down the civil penalty, which is way less than everyone... I mean, $120 million, give or take, is still a lot of money. But in the grand scheme of things, it’s way less than what they probably thought they might have had to face.

And then we saw XRP, you know, nearly hit an all-time high again in December. And that was crazy for some people that maybe saw potential and bought XRP when it was less than half a dollar in the midst of all of the SEC’s, you know, like in the heat of the SEC’s legal battle with them. And, you know, 2 or 3 years later, finally, sort of looking at the end of this lawsuit and hopefully seeing some sort of adoption and development on the XRP Ledger. They’re going to launch a stablecoin, another big talking point, you know. It’s looking pretty good on that front. And I think the price action showed that as well. It was crazy for me to see... I think, Zoltan, you might have written that story or 1 or 2 of them after the fact.

[00:14:17] Zoltan Vardai: Yeah, I did actually cover some of that. And, you know, one thing I’m really excited about when it comes to this whole battle between Ripple and the Securities and Exchange Commission is that we’ve got our new SEC chair, Paul Atkins, taking lead on the 21st of January, I believe. And I feel like a lot of people simply associate that with potentially having the Ripple case dropped completely, although I feel like Turner may know more about this than I do, as this is his beat.

[00:14:52] Turner Wright: Well, I can jump in there. It’s like, first of all, we don’t know... Paul Atkins has to be officially nominated and confirmed by the Senate, although there’s been suggestions that they’re bypassing that, or he might get an acting position in the meantime that doesn’t require confirmation. There’s a whole lot of political leverage that’s going back and forth there. The bottom line is it’s like maybe, but it could be a few months after that in which, like, no one is officially in charge. And there’s other things, vacancies in the SEC. So, there may only be two commissioners for a while, and they’re both Republicans, but that doesn’t really necessarily mean anything upon party lines. Either way, lot going on there.

But yes, Ripple, they had the $125 million liability, but they’re still — and the SEC appealed it, but Ripple cross-appealed it because they still want to make a statement just based on the facts of the case. So, they’re still going through that. So, nothing’s necessarily resolved then, even though it was arguably a win for them. They want to make it a double win.

[00:15:57] Gareth Jenkinson: Yeah, it’s a fascinating case. And I haven’t actually had the privilege of sitting down for a long-form interview with Brad Garlinghouse, but I chatted to David Schwartz, who’s the, you know, the CTO of XRP Ledger. A really, really smart guy. And look, I’m pretty agnostic when it comes to all the different protocols, and I like to read up and understand what all of them are doing. But, you know, whether it’s Ripple or XRP Ledger, Solana, Ethereum, you know, all these protocols and ecosystems are doing roughly the same thing. They have different trade-offs when it comes to the sort of blockchain trilemma, but they’re all trying to build new financial tools. And from all the spaces and all the people I spoke to in 2024, there was just this overarching sentiment that it’s good if there’s way less regulatory clampdown, especially in the United States, because all these people are just trying to build tools and, you know, drive things forward. And having this, you know, regulate-by-enforcement institution stifling innovation was terrible for everyone. And I think everyone’s sort of holding their breath, hoping that 2025 is much a much better environment for them to go about doing what they’re doing. So, I’m crossing fingers for everyone this year.

[00:17:16] Savannah Fortis: Yeah, I’m kind of curious. You know, on that note, like one of the interviews I did this year for Decentralize was with an author named Andrew Chow. He writes for Time magazine, and he published a book called Crypto Mania. And as we were talking, Andrew is, I guess you could call him an outsider to the crypto space, and something that he called himself, basically. And he was writing his book and approaching the interview as someone who’s not a crypto-native. So, offering a different perspective. And something I found really interesting, and it’s kind of on theme with all of this, is his highlighting of this dichotomy that exists in the crypto space where it is this space that seeks to be different from, you know, traditional finance and kind of go its own way. Major focus on decentralization, major focus on, you know, initially at least, power back to the individual when it comes to finances. Yet the space is like salivating at any sort of acceptance, recognition, involvement in a way. What do I want to say? Not validity. Yeah, I guess validity.

[00:18:37] Gareth Jenkinson: Validation.

[00:18:37] Savannah Fortis: Validation from traditional finance giants, basically. Regulators. Not only in the political arena, but also in the traditional finance space. You know, people are cheering that major companies that have been, you know, have these legacy names like BlackRock, for example, are now recognizing the crypto space. So, you know, he was kind of wondering about this dichotomy that exists in this space. And it was interesting for him to point that out as someone from the outside. And given that we’re all like definitely on the inside, curious about your guys’ thoughts with that, with 2024 being such a big year of seeing that, really.

[00:19:19] Zoltan Vardai: If I may weigh in on this. I just wanted to say that since we started talking about Bitcoin ETFs, there is definitely a bit of irony in the fact that we’ve only had these ETFs for a year, and they’re already holding nearly 6%, actually 5.7%, of the entire Bitcoin supply. And this is less than a year since they were approved. And BlackRock, specifically, holds over 2.5% of the entire Bitcoin supply, which, to your point, Savannah, you did say that we did start from decentralization, but these types of products also invite the type of centralization. Which, to be clear, I’m not necessarily saying it’s an inherent risk to Bitcoin, but it’s definitely against this ethos of inherent decentralization.

[00:20:07] Turner Wright: Yeah, it’s like a cultural issue within the industry, isn’t it? There’s still a lot of people pushing back against these kind of things. I mean, you can see it online, and we don’t necessarily want that kind of correlation between these major industries, or even politics for that matter, and yet we’re seeing it. And if they get too correlated, I mean, that’s not going to be good for anyone, I would think. I mean, for now, it works because everyone’s going into it. But what if it reaches a speed bump? Are people still going to be in favor of it?

[00:20:39] Gareth Jenkinson: Yeah, it’s a really good point. Jimmy Song made a good go at this at Bitcoin 2024 in Nashville. And when he was on stage, he’s like, we’re sitting here celebrating BlackRock, you know, buying up a large percentage of all the Bitcoin, and all you people that have been talking for years about Bitcoin finally giving us, you know, our freedom when it comes to money and actually putting money in the hands of people, and here we are celebrating the world’s biggest financial institutions hoarding, you know, large amounts of Bitcoin.

And the systemic risk, I mean, Zoltan makes a good point. It doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s risk, but if you look at people like Michael Saylor really doing his most to acquire as much Bitcoin as he can, and rewriting the playbook using MicroStrategy and, you know, their strategy to acquire Bitcoin, which is, you know, fairly risky if you ask some people, is directly tied to traditional finance and how people have done things in the past. So, it does beg the question, you know, we were all shouting from the rooftops how important Bitcoin is for individual sovereignty and, you know, taking control of your money. But everyone wants to see it go to $100K or $1 million per coin. It’s like, why? No, what should really matter is the world shifting to a Bitcoin standard and people finally realizing that they have hard money that is devoid of any of the corruption and, you know, issues with fiat currencies and debt-based instruments, you know.

So it’s a fascinating thing to watch play out. And that’s why I said earlier, like, I was kind of worried when I was sitting there watching Bitcoin 2024, like, guys, what the hell’s going on here? We’re enjoying a whole load of politicians getting on stage telling us how important Bitcoin is, and 4 or 8 years ago, none of those people even knew what Bitcoin is. Are they just doing it because they’ve got moneybags in their eyes, or do they actually care? And I’m always suspicious of politicians. So, yeah, it’s crazy.

[00:22:51] Turner Wright: Yeah. And we don’t even know if they’re going to hold to those promises. There was a lot said there, and it’s like, oh, everybody’s excited right now. But the new Congress is sworn in tomorrow, at the time we’re recording this. I’m not sure when it’s released. January 3rd. Trump goes into office on January 20th, and it’ll take like a few months to get things going, but we don’t know exactly what he’s going to do. Paul Atkins, everybody seems happy with him. And there’s been another nominee that a lot of people are saying, yeah, this is a crypto and AI czar. But until they actually get into office and start doing things, we don’t know what’s going to happen.

[00:23:24] Savannah Fortis: It’s true. And I think it’s really important that, you know, the US was kind of paying attention to that in the individual candidates. Because if you look at Europe, for example, who is rolling out MiCA, I think there is a difference between having politicians who are invested in like in crypto as an idea versus those who just don’t have an idea and are just kind of doing these widespread policies and then not having really any idea for the impact. Because already, you know, MiCA regulations are impacting the way that crypto companies that deal with different crypto products, digital asset products, are operating in Europe. And there are some arguably not negative but, you know, eyebrow-raising effects already, you know, and companies are concerned. They are definitely also eager to comply and eager to adjust. And you know, many say that they are happy to have guidelines, but that’s also delisted, you know, different types of digital assets in Europe already.

And, you know, I’m working on a piece now about Greece implementing these regulations this upcoming year. And I’ve spoken to people within the local community here, and they’re like, these, these politicians have no idea what crypto is. They don’t know what it means. They don’t know how it works. Right now, there’s not even a way to declare it in the tax system because they just don’t know. So, you know, it is concerning to have politicians who have no idea what’s going on because, you know, then they really don’t understand. And people who are seriously invested in the industry, not just monetarily, but, you know, even as an idea, as a concept, you know, that affects them in really negative ways.

And so it is on... Like a good part of that, of having politicians that are really active and who know, is that, you know, hopefully, they are more well informed. But that’s just... I mean, in a way, it’s also well-wishing because you never really know if they really know or if it’s all a front. But I mean, that is a positive sentiment, I guess, of all of this activity coming out of the US.

[00:25:46] Gareth Jenkinson: I will just say, on that, I mean, compliance, for most people, means survival, and that’s why a lot of people are doing it. But the problem really is if you look at someone like Gary Gensler, a lot of people thought that Gary Gensler was pretty pro-Bitcoin and had a really good grasp of everything. And to be honest, I think he is. But he was clearly very skeptical of the rest of the industry, and he was from, from my point of view, of the opinion that pretty much everything else is a security, and it should fall under their remit, and they should either pay some fines for not doing things right or stop operating, you know. And that’s a sad place to be.

For me, what really matters is, you know, people should have the choice. You know, if you live in a country, you abide by its rules. That’s just how it goes. I mean, it doesn’t matter how contrarian you are, you still have to live and pay your taxes. You know, there’s two certain things in life: death and taxes. But, you know, no one should be stopping you from being able to buy Bitcoin. And that, for me, is one of the most important things is if you look at guys like Joe Hall, Joe Nakamoto, you know, still contributes to Cointelegraph every now and then. He goes out to countries where people aren’t banked, you know, where they’re facing hyperinflation, And he tells stories about how Bitcoin is giving these countries or certain people another way where you don’t have to ask for permission. You can take whatever money you have and buy Bitcoin and start using it. As long as you have an internet connection, essentially, you can use Bitcoin. And that’s the real ethos of what it is. And then you go to Bitcoin 2024 in Nashville, and Trump is, you know, telling you to have fun playing with your Bitcoins. You know, it’s crazy.

But all of that being said, I think it’s still great. And it just goes to show that I think we have reached mass adoption if there’s... I often go to conferences, and you see these mass adoption panels, and you’re like, guys, what are you talking about, you know? If Donald Trump is telling the entirety of America that they’re going to be looking at doing things with Bitcoin, we’re there already. It’s just the case of do people understand what Bitcoin is, and are they willing to invest some money in it. And do they think that it’s a good store of value and a means to pay for goods and services? And that’s up to us now, is to better educate people to understand what it is and why it has value.

[00:28:10] Turner Wright: Yeah. In terms of the... I attended quite a few conferences last year, and I can tell you that the tone at most of the ones, granted I was at ones where lawmakers were in attendance, was regulation. And even among panels where you wouldn’t think it would crop up. It’s like everyone put this as their focus. And this was before the election. So, they realized it was going to be a major campaign issue. But not just, it was also dealing with MiCA and just the implications of that, but it was based in the US, so the intention was to the US.

[00:28:40] Savannah Fortis: Speaking of conferences, any highlights? I know you guys all have attended conferences all around the world. This last year, I think I was at 3, 3 or 4. I went to a really interesting press conference in Valencia, that was that was really fun, for like a Web3 boxing project. That was a proper press conference setup, which was really fun. Dubai during the floods, which was an absolute disaster. So, nothing good to say about that except a robot served me ice cream there, which was exciting, using DePIN technology, which was a huge 2024 buzzword, which was really fun. Went to Web Summit. Massive. Got to talk a little bit about AI. AI was huge this year, for the better or for the worse as well. There was tons of just unnecessary AI-related PR in my inbox all year. Where else did I go this year? I feel like those were the main conferences that I went to. Maybe I’m missing one, but I think that was what I had.

[00:29:53] Gareth Jenkinson: We went to Proof of Talk together as well.

[00:29:55] Savannah Fortis: Oh yeah! That’s right! How could I forget? I met Gareth in person. Proof of Talk.

[00:30:00] Gareth Jenkinson: That was actually a really good one. There were quite a few people that were involved in the Bitcoin ETFs there, including our good friend from Bloomberg... Man, my brain...

[00:30:13] Savannah Fortis: Eric Balchunas.

[00:30:14] Gareth Jenkinson: Yeah, Eric. Yeah. And I got to sit down and chat to him about that. And that was really great because I think Eric has done such a good job. Not that, you know, like crypto journalists do a bad job of this, but, you know, he’s an out-and-out sort of ETF investment products reporter, and, you know, he was sort of a paragon of truth for, for the rest of the industry when it came to looking for the actual announcement of the Bitcoin ETFs going live. And to just hear his thoughts on what it was and, you know, as a self-proclaimed boomer, his journey to understanding what Bitcoin is and why Bitcoin ETFs are valuable to investors and why they’re important was really great. So, that was a good conference, Savannah. I agree.

[00:31:00] Turner Wright: I’ve seen the evolution of the North American Blockchain Summits, formerly the Texas Blockchain Summit, over the last few years. And it’s just amazing just how much the change of tone is, because I think maybe it was the second one I went... The first one I went to, I think, was in 2021, 2022. So, 2022 was right after the crash of FTX. And believe me when I say that that conference was dead that year. Lawmakers that had been like scheduled were no longer in attendance. They did not want to be associated with this. That was also when I got the most interviews, because a lot of people just wanted to put the word out that they did not want to...

[00:31:38] Gareth Jenkinson: We’re still in business.

[00:31:40] Turner Wright: No, no, no, I don’t mean from companies. That too, but I mean from like elected officials who wanted to distance themselves from this. That’s the first time that happened, them reaching out to me. So yeah, the tone is definitely a bit cozier this year, I would say. I think last year was, 2023 was even more significant. That was like technically still in an election cycle. This year was cozier, but still very much alive. So, it was interesting to see the vibes there.

[00:32:10] Savannah Fortis: I like it. Cozy crypto conferences.

[00:32:13] Turner Wright: It was Christmas time, so it was all decorated.

[00:32:15] Savannah Fortis: That is very cozy.

[00:32:17] Turner Wright: Yeah.

[00:32:19] Gareth Jenkinson: What about you, Zoltan?

[00:32:21] Zoltan Vardai: So, I’ve attended a total of eight crypto conferences over here in Europe. And I must say that I feel like the biggest change that I see in these conferences came actually after the ETF approval, not after all the other milestones, simply because I feel like Bitcoin holders just started having this newfound peace of mind that they never had before where it was like, okay, Bitcoin is certainly not going to zero, or it’s not going to disappear anywhere.

And it’s interesting because I was actually in Prague at another crypto conference the night Bitcoin hit $100K. I mean, it was nighttime here. And what was really insane for me personally is that I was there on day two after it... We had screens everywhere with Bitcoin trading at $103K, and people weren’t even really that fazed about it. It wasn’t even really that crazy because everyone by that point was like, oh, it was just a matter of time. Whereas months ago, everyone was crying that we were not hitting the old all-time high. So, I feel like the industry is kind of forgetting these huge milestones a bit too fast and not really taking the time to appreciate how huge everything is that happened during 2024. But I’m not sure if you guys can really relate to that.

[00:33:40] Savannah Fortis: Well, here in Greece, there was... So, actually, surprisingly, I think Greece is probably going to be one of these next — or Athens, but Greece in general, because there’s some community in Crete, but in Thessaloniki. But I think it might be a hub for the Web3 space soon, because the Web3 community here is pretty, it’s tight-knit, and it’s pretty active. And they threw like a rooftop party for Bitcoin $100K, and they had like little medallions printed. Like legit, they went all out for it. I didn’t go, but I’m in the group, so I saw the pictures. I should have, but I saw the pictures that they were sending each other, and they had an event, and it was sweet. I love to see everyone come together and like literally just to celebrate it, like to go out and have fun and celebrate. And I thought that was a really cool moment, actually.

But I don’t know. I think maybe it depends on the place, too, because I know there is a community of like Bitcoin maxis here that got into Bitcoin during the run on the banks in Greece, and they actually used crypto for like one of the best use cases, which was like to redeem themselves from a failing traditional financial system like hardcore. And so when I first came here, I did like a longer piece on kind of the history of crypto in Greece. And I interviewed people as a part of that community, and that was one of the main narratives. And so there is a strong Bitcoin community specifically here who are around from that time, and they were super excited for sure. And if they’ve been holding since then, they are probably very excited.

[00:35:30] Gareth Jenkinson: Definitely. And they probably won’t ever not hold it. Because if you faced hyperinflation and you’ve seen what Bitcoin can do, and you have some conviction about its value proposition, then yeah, I don’t think they’ll be selling.

But I was just going to say, Zoltan, I definitely agree with you. Like I kind of saw for myself just this sort of general change in attitude towards like are we going to hit $100K to when are we going to hit $100K. And then the longer the conversation went on, you know, the less and less sort of fervorous people got about it. And I agree with you. When eventually it happened, I think there were like 2 or 3 nights in a row where the Cointelegraph team, like everyone was kind of staying up late at night waiting to see it happen in their own time zones. And then it didn’t happen. And the next morning. And then eventually it happened, and it was like, oh fuck, you know, it happened while I was sleeping. So, I thought that was that was pretty funny.

But yeah, I was also just going to go back to the events. I think I’m the luckiest out of everyone in the team. I go to a lot of these events and do these speakerships, and I’ve had a chance to interview a lot of people, and I don’t even know the number now this year or this year, last year. I went to a lot. I think in terms of the size, Token2049 in Singapore was really, really great. I thought Paris Blockchain Week was pretty good. We got some good interviews done there. I always enjoy Bitcoin Amsterdam. It’s in my hometown now. So, that’s always a good one to go to. I went to Dubai a couple of times this year as well, which was pretty interesting to see how hot and big crypto has become there. And yeah, I really enjoyed NFT Paris. Proof of Talk. Paris Blockchain Week. Those were good. But yeah, I think out of all of them, Token2049 was a standout to me.

And then Cointelegraph, we also put on two events ourselves. We’ve called it Longitude, and the idea is to basically put on these exclusive side events during big conferences and bring, you know, our best contacts to these conferences and host 3 or 4 panels and really give some people some alpha that they won’t really get anywhere else. And it was a big learning for us. It’s kind of scary to set these things up because, you know, we usually just go and cover conferences, and then suddenly you have to start getting people on the line and say, hey, we want you to come to this event and speak to us. So, like, I had huge anxiety, just worrying that people aren’t going to pitch up and actually come and speak to us. But that went really well. So, I’m hoping that we have a few more of those this year. And I hope all of us here get to get together and actually speak and be a part of them together. We had some of our team already involved, but I want to get the rest of the, you know, the news team involved and get all of us, you know, in front of people and people to really know who the people are that are delivering all the good stories that we’ve been writing for the last couple of years.

, yeah, events is a really interesting thing as well, just on that note. Like some of them are good, some of them are bad. But for the most part, I think they’re really great. And having worked as a sports broadcaster and then going into sort of covering crypto it’s pretty much the best place for journalists to go and actually meet, you know, thought leaders and the heads of industry and build the relationships that matter. And I think, Turner, you’re one of those people that you’ve got a great contact book when it comes to policy and most of the big stuff in the US. You’re our guy. Zoltan’s also really grown really quickly, and you’ve got a great contact book already. Your interview with Gavin Wood this year was a standout for me. I thought that was really cool. We’re still both racing to get to Vitalik. We’ll see who gets him first in 2025. But yeah, like conferences for me, still, some people have bad opinions about them, but I think they’re important for the industry. And it also just shows how much money there is in this industry that people are still able to put on these huge events, like month after month, year after year. It just keeps going. Bear market, bull market. They just happen.

[00:39:35] Savannah Fortis: Definitely.

[00:39:36] Turner Wright: I’m still willing to go over to Europe or Asia. You just got to...

[00:39:40] Gareth Jenkinson: We’ll make it happen. We’ll make it happen.

[00:39:42] Savannah Fortis: We want you over here, Turner.

[00:39:45] Turner Wright: Too many people in Europe, I know. It’s saturated with us.

[00:39:49] Savannah Fortis: Yeah. No. It’s crazy. You don’t realize, like... Yeah, the events for me are 50/50, but like you don’t realize how intense, and you don’t realize their impact until you’ve been to one. But you just have to go. You could see the pictures we post in Slack. You could see the pictures all over the internet. But you know, if you go, how just full of energy these events are no matter what. Small ones, big ones, people are in general pretty excited to be there and to network and to talk and to be excited about the industry, unless something really bad has just happened. But in general.

And on that note, I kind of want to swing over now from 2024 to 2025. There were obviously some big trends that we’ve already touched on in 2024, maybe some that we could have predicted at the beginning of the year and some just totally unexpected, like Hamster Kombat.

[00:40:49] Gareth Jenkinson: I was gonna say, that’s the one thing I actually had on my list, by the way, for 2024 was, forget Hamster Kombat, but Telegram Mini Apps and the TON blockchain was a big narrative actually, especially mid-year, I think it was. It was really big. And it just like for me, the biggest takeaway was the importance of network effects and what they can do for a blockchain. And TON operating within Telegram’s sphere of influence, 900 million users, it was just the perfect, you know, network to grow Mini Apps that run on blockchain. And they’re still exploding. You know, every few months, we see different Mini Apps doing different things. And, you know, yes, a lot of people are using these Mini Apps and playing games, doing whatever they’re doing with them to maybe farm tokens and maybe make some money. But people are still building some really, really interesting things. And that was a big narrative. Anyway, let’s keep going. Sorry.

[00:41:52] Savannah Fortis: No, no, no, that’s it’s good, it’s good. Maybe that’s one of your predictions for 2025. I’m curious: What are you guys thinking? Are you thinking any of these themes are going to continue into 2025? Are we ditching memecoins this year? What’s the vibe?

[00:42:12] Turner Wright: There’ll probably be something that none of us ever expected that just crops up out of nowhere, and all of a sudden, it’s the next thing with inside of a week. Or what am I saying, with inside 24 hours. But it’s like, I think back to just this mainstream institutional adoption and like political adoption. Maybe this is very US-centric, but I can’t help it. That’s what I’m dealing with here. It’s just that we’ve got a lot more potential for scams and phishing attempts just as more people enter the space. I mean, even Chainalysis reported there was an uptick in 2024, although it did drop in the later half of the year. But that could have been for a variety of factors. Maybe scammers are more prolific in winter. Beats me.

[00:42:54] Gareth Jenkinson: Zoltan, what have you got? What you got for 2025?

[00:42:59] Zoltan Vardai: Actually, there’s a few things I’m thinking about, but we kind of spoke about all these politicians jumping on the Bitcoin bandwagon. And actually, a lot of analysts I’m talking to told me that one of Bitcoin’s biggest drivers for 2025 is the incoming crypto regulation in the US. And the fact that we’re expecting more innovation-friendly regulation. But on the flip side, some analysts feel like regulation could also be the biggest risk for Bitcoin this year because if Trump sort of delays all these promised regulations and if nothing’s heard about the Bitcoin reserve act, people could simply start using enthusiasm and start chasing the next shiny thing, which I guess at the beginning of 2024 was kind of AI. So, I feel like it’s interesting that US regulations could be like our biggest bullish catalyst and could be our biggest downfall in some sense. What do you guys think?

[00:43:57] Gareth Jenkinson: I was just thinking, like something to the side of it, the side of regulation, like even in the US and in certain countries, is not just how people have handled regulations, but just how they’ve handled things that are violations of the law has been a concern this last year. So, it’ll be interesting to see. We’ve still got a lot of pending criminal cases that you may disagree with them. You may not. They’re still allegations until they go to trial, assuming they do go to trial. But it’ll be interesting to see how they handle these. I mean, Alex Mashinsky, former Celsius CEO, he’s probably going to be sentenced in a matter of weeks, as is his alleged cohort. But we all remember what happened with Nigeria, with the Binance exec, and just how much of... Can I swear on here? Just how much of a shitstorm that was. So, it’ll be interesting to see just how we see examples of cases like this, whether they’re guilty or not, just how governments crackdown on it.

I think you made a really good point, Zoltan. Just the fact that when there’s this much froth and sort of FOMO, bad things can happen. And when bad things happen, that’s when regulators and governments step in. A key example for me was not even six weeks ago when things got a little bit weird and crazy on Pump.fun, and people were launching all these memecoins and using the livestream tool and doing all sorts of crazy stuff, you know, like, really? I mean, we did some video content on it. Some of it’s hilarious to watch. Some of it is terrible. You know, people were doing really bad things from, you know, racism to self-harm and all sorts of other depraved things. But I would imagine if I was a regulator that didn’t know much about the space, and I saw one of these videos, I’d be like, geez, we need to stop that from happening. And no one wants that. But at the same time, I don’t think any of us here want that either.

And I, you know, like I’ve said it time and time again, like memecoins, yes, they might attract a lot of people to the ecosystem, and they might introduce some people to crypto, and then maybe they’ll buy some Bitcoin or Ethereum or Solana. But for many of them, they’re just gambling, and like let’s call it what it is. It’s gambling.

And yeah. So, and in terms of like trends in 2025, I think there’s been a lot of talk about AI agents, especially in the last month. So, I think that’s going to be a really big trend. And, you know, I think a lot of this is almost marketing jargon. You look at things like AI agents, it’s just people leveraging large language models and AI tools and getting them to automate a lot of different things. So, like the easiest example was Truth Terminal and GOAT memecoin, you know. Truth Terminal was this AI agent. It eventually stumbled upon GOAT and then it started promoting GOAT. And it’s an LLM. It’s just interacting with people on X and, you know, mobilizing people to invest in this memecoin. But what was the result? What, $1 billion market cap, I think, for GOAT? I’m not sure if it surpassed it or not, but that’s crazy.

If, literally, an X account controlled by an AI agent did that, it’s hard not to think that, you know, AI tools could play a big role. But I also just know that there’s a lot of smart people out there, and there’s a lot of grifters that will make a lot of money on AI agents, just because it’s a hot talking point and everyone’s talking about it right now, and every KOL is going to be making videos about it on YouTube, telling you what AI agent you should be investing in.

My problem with this is you don’t know who owns what, or who’s controlling what, or who’s involved in what. So, you should always just be skeptical about what you’re seeing on YouTube and on social media and just do your own homework, because there’s a lot of people that are just trying to use you as exit liquidity. And I think the more honest we are about this, the better. And I would challenge the rest of the industry, especially the KOLs, if anyone’s out there that’s listening, like be better guys. You know everyone has to make money. We understand that. But don’t just shill tokens and, you know, not tell people that you’re invested. It’s been going on for years, and it’s about time people started, you know, saying something more, more strongly about it. It’s really something that kills me, but yeah. AI agents this year, I think.

And then I’m just keenly interested to see what happens with Bitcoin and Senator Lummis’ Bitcoin bill if it goes through. If it goes through for me, that’s, you know, then... Look. I’m not a Bitcoin price prediction person, but that could really do something crazy to Bitcoin. If the US adopted Bitcoin as a strategic reserve asset, the rest of the world has no choice but to follow suit. And then it’s, yeah, I don’t even know what’s going to happen. It’ll be crazy. It’ll be crazy.

[00:49:01] Turner Wright: Yeah. I don’t even know the legality of pushing through something like that, even if the Senate or the House has the authority or whether it’s something Trump can do by executive order. I think he’s hinted that he thinks he can anyway, but I don’t think anyone knows for sure. So, that’ll be interesting to follow. FIT21. I forget the name of Lummis’ bill.

[00:49:23] Gareth Jenkinson: I think it’s The Bitcoin Bill, but I think I’ve got it wrong.

[00:49:28] Turner Wright: Well, establishes like a 1 million Bitcoin holdings. So, roughly 5%. Yeah. Oh, no, over five? Yeah. Something like that. Holding it for a certain amount of time. So, that’ll be interesting to follow.

[00:49:41] Zoltan Vardai: I feel like the Bitcoin Act is definitely a huge theme for 2025, but as you said yourself, this is something that’s very, very uncertain. But just to reflect on some of these price predictions that Gareth also mentioned, I know we’ve been hearing a lot of crazy predictions, even up to $200K and $250K until 2025, but one really type of level-headed analysis I really love comes from Raoul Pal, who basically uses the global money supply and its correlation with Bitcoin to track Bitcoin’s movement and to set the macro top. And Bitcoin is generally around 70 days behind the global money supply. And given that the Fed is predicted to print another $2 trillion, based on its correlation with the money supply rule, Raoul Pal predicted that it goes up to $132K, which obviously is not a guarantee. But I feel like it’s really interesting because its correlation has held up with the global money supply for the biggest part of Bitcoin’s existence.

[00:50:46] Gareth Jenkinson: Yeah. And I mean, like, that’s if everything goes normally, right? It is the Bitcoin Act, so Zoltan was right. I just checked quickly. But if that happens, then it’s like forget all cycles and everything. You’re in uncharted waters. And to be honest, I think we already are. What’s happened in the last six months has been completely uncharted, and it has changed the cycles. The one thing we didn’t even mention for last year was the Bitcoin halving. You know, and I mean, it’s kind of inconsequential at this stage, but it’s a big thing. I mean, that is what created the cycles was the halving and the reduction of the inflation rate, basically.

There’s that much less Bitcoin being created every block, which means that it’s far more valuable to everyone. And if Bitcoin ETFs are buying up like, it was like 10,000 Bitcoin a day in December or November, and we were only mining 900 a day. It’s crazy, you know, when you get a supply shock. And I mean, the thing is, with Bitcoin, it’s highly divisible. So, there’s no actual supply shock because there’s 100 million satoshis in 1 Bitcoin. But its price can just go up exponentially. And if a Bitcoin Act happens, yeah, that’s my big one for this year, I think.

[00:52:10] Savannah Fortis: Gareth, you were right. It was Bitcoin summer as a year last year.

[00:52:17] Turner Wright: I feel like the only thing that has been consistent over the last six years has been we can always count on that British guy to appeal to the local government to try to fish that Bitcoin out of that dumpster. There will always be a story on it. It’s going to come up next year. It’s going to come up the year after that.

[00:52:32] Savannah Fortis: That was me. I did that story last year. I did it. I talked to him.

[00:52:38] Zoltan Vardai: Josh spoke to him this year, I think.

[00:52:40] Savannah Fortis: Yeah, I think Josh did the first story. I did the follow-up, and I spoke with him as well. He’s committed. That’s dedication.

[00:52:51] Gareth Jenkinson: Well, I’m not surprised.

[00:52:54] Turner Wright: How much is it worth now?

[00:52:56] Zoltan Vardai: $770 million, I think.

[00:52:58] Turner Wright: $700 million. Oh, goody.

[00:53:01] Savannah Fortis: Here’s an unpopular opinion I want for 2025. Maybe unpopular opinion. Maybe unnecessary opinion for 2025. But I would like to see, now that everyone has relatively accepted the crypto space, I would like to see NFTs for utility back in the game, specifically because one of my favorite beats to cover is the intersection of music and Web3, and there’s just some really great use cases for artists when it comes to NFTs, if used properly. And if more people are holding crypto, have crypto wallets, for example, now, this is a great opportunity for people to actually capitalize on this in a great way. And not just capitalize in like, the monetary sense. Like those are really useful for fan communities when used the right way. And you could be really creative with that.

And over the years, I mean, this is something I’ve reported on a lot. And over the years, you’ve seen bigger names from that industry step into crypto via NFTs. And, you know, they’ve been the ones to get their communities excited. And now, if we’re at the level where, you know, mainstream people are talking about crypto, holding crypto, and using crypto like it’s the dollar, then, you know, I am all for seeing those use cases go back up and seeing that kind of come into play for musicians and artists. Because there’s kind of this movement going on in the music industry right now anyways, which is like, yo, creators, why aren’t you using social media tools that are available to you and like bypassing labels and all of this stuff to get your music out and actually taking the money for yourself instead of, you know, being a slave to these contracts. And Web3 and crypto and like decentralized tools like that kind of fall right in line with that whole ethos.

And that’s a trend. So, maybe it’s an unnecessary thing. It’s a hope for 2025. I would love to see that. I would love to see like true utility come back with all of these Web3 tools that we had at the beginning where people were just kind of like doing these quick schemes for them, and then they just went away, and then everyone was like, oh, they’re dead. I would actually love to see those come back now that we’re all serious, you know.

[00:55:20] Gareth Jenkinson: Well, I agree with you. I mean, they’re so much better than memecoins. And like, I’ll tell you this. I had a random wallet that had 70 USDC in it, and I was like, I’m never going to spend this, these dollars. And it was like three weeks after Pepe originally launched. And I was like, I’m going to YOLO $70 into Pepe. And I YOLO’d $70 into Pepe, and it went down to $20. And I was like, yep, I knew it. I knew that was going to happen. Like, what did I expect? I didn’t do anything with it. That Pepe now is worth like $1,200. So, I mean, I don’t know what that is like a 1,000x or something. And, you know, I’m not the kind of person that’s like, damn it, I should have put $1,000 in. I’d be rich. I was just kind of like, this just proves my point. It’s gambling. You know, I put $70 into something that I didn’t really care about, and a year later, it’s worth over $1,000. But what is its actual value? What does Pepe do for any of us? I can tell you what Bitcoin does for people and why it’s valuable. I can tell you why Ethereum is. I can tell you why Solana is a great blockchain and, you know, its use cases. But a lot of these memecoins, I’m sorry. Like, I’m going to be real about it. It doesn’t offer value. And at least with a lot of NFTs, like you say, Savannah, you can do some interesting things with them. There really are some interesting things.

And while we’re on the trends thing, I’d love to see like DePIN really come to the fore again this year. I think this was one of my biggest gripes with memecoins in 2024 was that it took a lot of money and focus away from protocols that are actually building whatever it is, infrastructure or utility, that had real use cases. You know, there’s many, many DePIN projects that will have real, tangible value. And I think that smart investors have seen that. And a lot of people have made a lot of money investing in the right tokens that are tied to DePIN networks.

And I mean, essentially, like a good DePIN would allow you to… Let’s say you’ve got 10 computers at your house with really high-powered graphics cards in them. There’s a huge demand for this computing power. You can plug all your graphics cards into a DePIN network, avail this processing power, and you can earn money by, you know, plugging into a DePIN network. You can use smartphones to help track devices. There’s a myriad of really, really great use cases that are built on blockchain technology, and I would like to see those really come back to the fore, and not just people trading memecoins and being degens. We need more value in the world and less wasteful behavior.

[00:58:05] Savannah Fortis: I second that one, Gareth. Definitely. All right. Well, we are just about to hit the hour mark here, and it’s been a great conversation so far. I really enjoyed it, and thank you all for joining me on the first of what I hope is many roundtable episodes for our editorial team. I think it’s a great opportunity for us to just lift the veil a little bit and get a little bit more personal, you know, with ourselves and the stories that we get to report on and tell. And we have a wealth of knowledge from all of these firsthand conversations and day in and day out watching those news cycles and just, like I said earlier, being on the front lines of everything that’s happening. So, I think it’s a valuable use of our listeners’ time, our audience’s time, to be here with us. And yeah, thank you guys so much.

[00:59:02] Turner Wright: Thanks very much.

[00:59:03] Gareth Jenkinson: Thanks very much, guys. It was a pleasure. Until the next one.

[00:59:07] Savannah Fortis: Until the next one. Definitely. And I wish you all a good 2025 reporting.

[00:59:13] Zoltan Vardai: Thank you.

[00:59:15] Savannah Fortis: And there you have it. The first episode of Decentralize with Cointelegraph for 2025. Thank you so much for joining us on this new style of episode. In the coming year, we plan many more roundtables to discuss what’s going on in the industry with the people right there on the front lines. We want to lift the veil a little bit of our editorial room and share some behind-the-scenes thoughts of our reporters who are bringing you all the latest crypto news and updates every single day. Let us know what you thought. Send us some feedback. We’d love to hear from you. Make sure you like, subscribe, follow wherever you get your podcasts. We are looking forward to a great 2025 filled with some brand-new audio stories, amazing interviews, and more. So, make sure you’re here. And until next time.